Adding portal/SCSM mgt server to a SCOM-monitored server?

Tom_Hendricks

Historically, my question would be easy to answer: there are many articles describing how SCSM management servers should never have a SCOM agent on them, and some even explain why.

However, now that (as of 1807/2019) SCOM and SCSM are able to tell each other apart, at least somewhat, has anything changed on the server side?

I ask because I would like to add more Cireson Portal instances and I have a few servers well below their resource capacity from which I could run it, but I do not want to remove the SCOM agent if I do not have to.  It is providing a great deal of information about the other services already running on those servers.

Anyone have some insight to share on this?  Many thanks!

James_Atance

Hey Tom, I am slightly confused by what you are asking here.

Before SC 2012 R2 you had to use Agentless management with a SCSM Management pack to get info out of the servers.

This was changed back in SC 2012 R2 because Microsoft added a built in agent into the SCSM software. So the SCOM agent is installed on the SCSM management servers automatically, so getting SCOM to monitor SCSM was made easier. 

Jeff_Lang

there are issues if you try to install the scom scom agent as far as i know, but we manually configure the scsm scom agent that gets installed with scsm to point to our scom servers and have had no issues.

we did originally have the scom scom agent installed on the first scsm management server when it was first setup, and did have issues with it, but we then uninstalled scsm and the scom scom agent, then just installed scsm and configured the scsm scom agent and it's been fine since.

James_Atance

Correct, you just need to set your SCOM Management group name, Primary management server & Port in the SCSM Agent Setting within the Control Panel of your SCSM Management Servers, thne using the SCSM Management Pack you can start monitor them.

Are you also aware of the Cireson Management Pack that is available from Technet
https://gallery.technet.microsoft.com/Cireson-Portal-Cache-d6206955


Hope this helps
James

James_Atance

Hey Tom, I am slightly confused by what you are asking here.

Before SC 2012 R2 you had to use Agentless management with a SCSM Management pack to get info out of the servers.

This was changed back in SC 2012 R2 because Microsoft added a built in agent into the SCSM software. So the SCOM agent is installed on the SCSM management servers automatically, so getting SCOM to monitor SCSM was made easier. 

Tom_Hendricks

Thanks, @James_Atance.  This is getting at exactly what I am seeking clarification for.

Yes, there is a built in agent with SCSM, but I have seen a fair amount of guidance not to point this agent to SCOM, because there would (eventually, if not immediately) be interference from SCOM agent tasks on the SCSM servers.  Has this been proven/disproven in more recent versions?

I have been monitoring SCSM with agentless monitoring since we first installed 2012 R2 (have upgraded to 2016, 1801, 1807 since then), because we already have a huge number of daily performance headaches and cannot tolerate another.  But if I can allow SCOM to monitor an SCSM server, I can install more SCSM servers and Cireson portals and at least handle the high number of concurrent user sessions better.  I'm sure you can understand why I am being cautious and questioning this first, though.

Jeff_Lang

there are issues if you try to install the scom scom agent as far as i know, but we manually configure the scsm scom agent that gets installed with scsm to point to our scom servers and have had no issues.

we did originally have the scom scom agent installed on the first scsm management server when it was first setup, and did have issues with it, but we then uninstalled scsm and the scom scom agent, then just installed scsm and configured the scsm scom agent and it's been fine since.

James_Atance

Correct, you just need to set your SCOM Management group name, Primary management server & Port in the SCSM Agent Setting within the Control Panel of your SCSM Management Servers, thne using the SCSM Management Pack you can start monitor them.

Are you also aware of the Cireson Management Pack that is available from Technet
https://gallery.technet.microsoft.com/Cireson-Portal-Cache-d6206955


Hope this helps
James

Tom_Hendricks

Thanks for the responses.  To answer why I asked this question in the first place, while installing a SCOM agent would clearly be a bad idea, but I have read that manually setting the "agent" installed by SCSM also causes issues with SCSM, but not usually right away, and that agentless is still the only acceptable way to monitor SCSM.

I suspected that might not/no longer be true, so this seemed like a good place to draw in good, current opinions on the matter and this forum did not disappoint!

Yes, we do have the SCSM and Cireson MP's installed in SCOM.  They have been giving some information even with agentless monitoring in place.  I am looking forward to seeing the difference after manually pointing the SCSM servers to SCOM.

Alberto_Fumagalli

On your workflow server you shouldn't set anything in the MS Monitoring Agent applet in the Control Panel: https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/system-center-blog/monitoring-service-manager-with-microsoft-system-center/ba-p/351600

I completely agree with this, because I had at least a couple of customers in which the applet configuration broke the workflow engine. Cases opened in MS had officially stated that the applet must remain not configured, since the monitoring must be agentless. Engine break may act behind the scenes for weeks or months and then suddenly explode: clearing the HealthServiceState folder may help only for a few hours or days, but then the break reappears.

Personally and basing on my experience, I would also suggest not configuring the applet even on the DW server as well as on secondary management servers.